Electric Trucking Fire Engine Issues

[raschildhouse]

We have numerous trucks for our layout and the most favorite was the fire engine followed by the tow truck. Pulled the set out for the first time since 1987 the other day and started running it. The fire engine's motor initially would not rotate at all, the light may or may not come on. Cleaned it up and spun the motor's worm gear with a small screw driver. Now the motor and it's worm gear spins freely. However, the drive wheels still do not spin. If I push the big gear on the side, which spins the cam for the bell and the lights, everything rotates about one revolution and jars to a dead stop other than the motor and its worm gear.
Trying to remove the top to get access and not seeing or finding a way to get there.
Any suggestions?
We bought this set during our Navy tour in Kingsville, Texas, and it moved to Japan and then Virginia and got a lot of use. With the move to California in 1987 it stayed in the box. My Wife and I, both in our 70s, took it out the other day and have just had fun with it. We filled a 4x8 sheet with every accessory we could. In my YouTube video I put all of the instruction sheets I have for our accessories.
Thanks,
Rex

 

[Tyco Trucking]

We have numerous trucks for our layout and the most favorite was the fire engine followed by the tow truck. Pulled the set out for the first time since 1987 the other day and started running it. The fire engine's motor initially would not rotate at all, the light may or may not come on. Cleaned it up and spun the motor's worm gear with a small screw driver. Now the motor and it's worm gear spins freely. However, the drive wheels still do not spin. If I push the big gear on the side, which spins the cam for the bell and the lights, everything rotates about one revolution and jars to a dead stop other than the motor and its worm gear.
Trying to remove the top to get access and not seeing or finding a way to get there.
Any suggestions?
View attachment 721

Hi Rex, welcome to the forum..

What is probably going on is either the motor gear, and/or the axle gear has a split in it. Even the smallest hairline crack will make the motor lock up.

To get to the gears is quite the task. There is a small Phillips head screw on the bottom of the chassis. Remove that screw.

Now you want to go to the side of the chassis by the rear tires. There is a square opening in the chassis, and this is where the top part gets secured to the chassis. You want to use a small precision screwdriver to pry one side of the top part to release the holding tab.

If you want you can either finagle it apart with the light still attached, or you can desolder/cut one or both of the light wires. Whatever path you choose the light has to come out of that socket.

By prying the aforementioned tabs in the back, it will release the top part and it can be removed. The tabs aren’t easy to see or get to. Once that’s done there will more than likely be a small square of paper looking material sitting on top of the motor. Remove that and keep it safe.

Now you should be down to a typical chassis. You can use a small pry tool to pry between the motor gear and the motor on the shaft to remove the motor.

Now you can inspect the gears for cracks. A magnifying glass or your phone camera zoomed in (open like your going to take a picture but use it like a magnifier) can help.

Per your picture that gear you removed is a type of clutch. There is a small spring with a hook the engages a pin on the back of the gear allowing the gear to spin the shaft. When used in reverse this doing doesn’t engage so the lights and bell won’t work.

If you leave the light untouched/uncut it’s kind of a PITA to get the top part back on. You also need to place that cover over the motor, so some good dexterity is needed.

If you need them, I can post pictures of all this if that will give you a better picture of how to get this chassis apart.

 

[raschildhouse]

Hi Rex, welcome to the forum..

What is probably going on is either the motor gear, and/or the axle gear has a split in it. Even the smallest hairline crack will make the motor lock up.

To get to the gears is quite the task. There is a small Phillips head screw on the bottom of the chassis. Remove that screw.

Now you want to go to the side of the chassis by the rear tires. There is a square opening in the chassis, and this is where the top part gets secured to the chassis. You want to use a small precision screwdriver to pry one side of the top part to release the holding tab.

If you want you can either finagle it apart with the light still attached, or you can desolder/cut one or both of the light wires. Whatever path you choose the light has to come out of that socket.

By prying the aforementioned tabs in the back, it will release the top part and it can be removed. The tabs aren’t easy to see or get to. Once that’s done there will more than likely be a small square of paper looking material sitting on top of the motor. Remove that and keep it safe.

Now you should be down to a typical chassis. You can use a small pry tool to pry between the motor gear and the motor on the shaft to remove the motor.

Now you can inspect the gears for cracks. A magnifying glass or your phone camera zoomed in (open like your going to take a picture but use it like a magnifier) can help.

Per your picture that gear you removed is a type of clutch. There is a small spring with a hook the engages a pin on the back of the gear allowing the gear to spin the shaft. When used in reverse this doing doesn’t engage so the lights and bell won’t work.

If you leave the light untouched/uncut it’s kind of a PITA to get the top part back on. You also need to place that cover over the motor, so some good dexterity is needed.

If you need them, I can post pictures of all this if that will give you a better picture of how to get this chassis apart.

Thanks for the info. That tab is hardly visible. Rainy day in SoCal so I have my work for the day. Appreciate it, Rex

 

[AMH1955]

If the motor and the gears turn freely and the wheels don't the axle gear or the wheels have to be slipping on the axle shaft? That bell ringer gear mechanism put a lot more stress on those to drive it , if it jams things up things can happen.

 

[Tyco Trucking]

If the motor and the gears turn freely and the wheels don't the axle gear or the wheels have to be slipping on the axle shaft? That bell ringer gear mechanism put a lot more stress on those to drive it , if it jams things up things can happen.

I thought about that after I had posted my reply. Which is quite funny cause I just yesterday troubleshot a chassis where the axle spun in the gear. The gear had split so bad the axle just freewheeled. Worse split I ever seen, and I broke the gear in half.



The kicker is the chassis was like brand new. Came from the 3344 set I bought, which was almost brand new..

 

[raschildhouse]

Hi Rex, welcome to the forum..

What is probably going on is either the motor gear, and/or the axle gear has a split in it. Even the smallest hairline crack will make the motor lock up.

To get to the gears is quite the task. There is a small Phillips head screw on the bottom of the chassis. Remove that screw.

Now you want to go to the side of the chassis by the rear tires. There is a square opening in the chassis, and this is where the top part gets secured to the chassis. You want to use a small precision screwdriver to pry one side of the top part to release the holding tab.

If you want you can either finagle it apart with the light still attached, or you can desolder/cut one or both of the light wires. Whatever path you choose the light has to come out of that socket.

By prying the aforementioned tabs in the back, it will release the top part and it can be removed. The tabs aren’t easy to see or get to. Once that’s done there will more than likely be a small square of paper looking material sitting on top of the motor. Remove that and keep it safe.

Now you should be down to a typical chassis. You can use a small pry tool to pry between the motor gear and the motor on the shaft to remove the motor.

Now you can inspect the gears for cracks. A magnifying glass or your phone camera zoomed in (open like your going to take a picture but use it like a magnifier) can help.

Per your picture that gear you removed is a type of clutch. There is a small spring with a hook the engages a pin on the back of the gear allowing the gear to spin the shaft. When used in reverse this doing doesn’t engage so the lights and bell won’t work.

If you leave the light untouched/uncut it’s kind of a PITA to get the top part back on. You also need to place that cover over the motor, so some good dexterity is needed.

If you need them, I can post pictures of all this if that will give you a better picture of how to get this chassis apart.

Going back to the original answer, and I appreciate everyone's comments. To say getting the top of the chassis off is fun would get me a federal prison sentence longer than my total life. HOWEVER, prevailed. One of the things that helped was I cut a slit in the cardboard pad I was working on that allowed the chassis cleat to rest in with a toothpick holding the first side released open while the second side was up. Cleaned out a fair amount of hair and carpet fibers, thanks to one of the homepage videos. The axle and axle drive wheels are solid locks. When I try to turn a wheel, it fights you for all its worth. When, with reversed power, I rest the front on the track for power and nudge the drive wheels it turns about one revolution and jams, jolting, to a stop. Reverse the power again, nudge, get one revolution, jams and jolts to a stop. Worked at spinning the motor worm gear and the axle worm gear by hand and found this. The axle worm gear has been worn down in one area. Manually spin the motor worm gear to get this area back up into contact and the motor shaft and worm gear jams. I tried to push the axle thru the chassis, intending to take another non-functioning car's drive axle gear. Failed with reasonable pressure. So, off to YouTube to confirm that excessive pressure will push the drive axle through the drive axle worm gear.

Appreciate the help, looks like I am after a repair part.

I set up our Tyco road racing set last night and ran it this morning for about an hour. We are just having fun opening boxes our career Navy moves left closed for years.

We watched some of the MASSIVE layouts on YouTube. My Wife is wondering how much I will spend on these layouts. We run trains, N, HO, S, O, and G as well. And I really miss losing my 1/32nd scale road racing set and AMT 1/25 steerable road racing set. We have train videos on YouTube.

Thanks,
Rex

 

[Tyco Trucking]

Going back to the original answer, and I appreciate everyone's comments. To say getting the top of the chassis off is fun would get me a federal prison sentence longer than my total life. HOWEVER, prevailed. One of the things that helped was I cut a slit in the cardboard pad I was working on that allowed the chassis cleat to rest in with a toothpick holding the first side released open while the second side was up. Cleaned out a fair amount of hair and carpet fibers, thanks to one of the homepage videos. The axle and axle drive wheels are solid locks. When I try to turn a wheel, it fights you for all its worth. When, with reversed power, I rest the front on the track for power and nudge the drive wheels it turns about one revolution and jams, jolting, to a stop. Reverse the power again, nudge, get one revolution, jams and jolts to a stop. Worked at spinning the motor worm gear and the axle worm gear by hand and found this. The axle worm gear has been worn down in one area. Manually spin the motor worm gear to get this area back up into contact and the motor shaft and worm gear jams. I tried to push the axle thru the chassis, intending to take another non-functioning car's drive axle gear. Failed with reasonable pressure. So, off to YouTube to confirm that excessive pressure will push the drive axle through the drive axle worm gear.

Appreciate the help, looks like I am after a repair part.

I set up our Tyco road racing set last night and ran it this morning for about an hour. We are just having fun opening boxes our career Navy moves left closed for years.

We watched some of the MASSIVE layouts on YouTube. My Wife is wondering how much I will spend on these layouts. We run trains, N, HO, S, O, and G as well. And I really miss losing my 1/32nd scale road racing set and AMT 1/25 steerable road racing set. We have train videos on YouTube.

Thanks,
Rex

Yes, it’s not fun getting that apart and not damaging it. Per your second pic that gear is toast. The gears are made to not allow the wheels to turn. If manually forced it will break the teeth off as shown in your image. I’ve had a couple chassis with that and it baffles me how it happened lol..

Anyway, seems you got it squared away. Just wondering what you did about the light?

When I did one of my fire trucks I left it connected and went even further and removed the pick-up shoes/motor ears. I think one had a burnt light so I took a light from another truck. Putting it together was a bear trying to get the slack in the wire.

 

[raschildhouse]

Yes, it’s not fun getting that apart and not damaging it. Per your second pic that gear is toast. The gears are made to not allow the wheels to turn. If manually forced it will break the teeth off as shown in your image. I’ve had a couple chassis with that and it baffles me how it happened lol..

Anyway, seems you got it squared away. Just wondering what you did about the light?

When I did one of my fire trucks I left it connected and went even further and removed the pick-up shoes/motor ears. I think one had a burnt light so I took a light from another truck. Putting it together was a bear trying to get the slack in the wire.

I left the light attached at the moment. Soldering small parts is not a problem. I have a Weller Soldering station for electronic. While it was handy, I did not have to move the top of the chassis farther than the leads allowed. I downloaded and printed the gears on my Prusa i3Mk3S printer using ABS filament. Pretty dirty. I am reprinting them in PLA to see if that is different. To remove the axle, just push it through the chassis? That is the only logical way I see to do it.
One of the things that helped, I was working on corrugated cardboard. I cut a slot in it to put that large tang on the down side into. That stabilized the chassis pretty well.
Thanks for the help.
From the forum, I saw @biddle's video on the auto reversing bulldozer log loader and will look into producing a video of the problems and solutions I had with it. I got it to work. I used double-sided tape between the original "flywheel" and the add-on flywheel. Super 3D print.
Cannot wait for our 8-year old granddaughter to see this set.
Thanks again,
Rex@

 

[Tyco Trucking]

I left the light attached at the moment. Soldering small parts is not a problem. I have a Weller Soldering station for electronic. While it was handy, I did not have to move the top of the chassis farther than the leads allowed. I downloaded and printed the gears on my Prusa i3Mk3S printer using ABS filament. Pretty dirty. I am reprinting them in PLA to see if that is different. To remove the axle, just push it through the chassis? That is the only logical way I see to do it.
One of the things that helped, I was working on corrugated cardboard. I cut a slot in it to put that large tang on the down side into. That stabilized the chassis pretty well.
Thanks for the help.
From the forum, I saw Mike Biddle's video on the auto reversing bulldozer log loader and will look into producing a video of the problems and solutions I had with it. I got it to work. I used double-sided tape between the original "flywheel" and the add-on flywheel. Super 3D print.
Cannot wait for our 8-year old granddaughter to see this set.
Thanks again,
Rex

To remove the axle, you need some sort of blocking bar, and a dump truck/vehicle rear weight.

Remove the tires and one of the rear rims. Usually you can just grab it and slightly twist it till it comes off. However, from my experience the fire trucks usually are much harder to remove.

If you have a set of pin punches, use one the size of the axle or smaller. Or another axle, or a nail or whatever you can hit to drive the axle off the rim. You’ll need to use a block to lift the chassis off the work surface to allow the other rim and axle to move down. A few solid taps and it should break free. I’d probably remove the rim that doesn’t drive the gear, so in case it gets oversized it won’t affect turning the side gear.

Once you get the rim off you’ll have a portion of the axle sticking out. Using the rear weight as a block, place the axle end on it and press down. This will make the gear bottom on the hole at the bottom of the chassis and the gear will move a bit.

Now slide the axle so the gear is against the hole on the bare axle side. Using a suitable blocking bar, you want to place it in the gap between the gear and the bottom hole, on the side with the rim still on. Holding the blocker tool, place the axle on the weight again and push it again. At this point it should move the gear enough you can grab the rim and pull the axle free.

In simpler terms, you want to remove the non-drive rim, using a pin punch and a beater. Or if you can just grab it and twist it off, maybe. Fire trucks are usually a PITA to get the rear rims off. Then you want to push the bare axle to the chassis, then block the gear with something to allow another push cycle to get it free.

To install, install the motor with its gear on, drop the axle gear through the hole. Then push the axle into its chassis hole. Do so until you engage the gear a bit. Slightly turn the axle to “feel” the spines and then press via the rim side to get through the gear. Again block the gear with a tool opposite your rim side, and finish pushing the rim until your gear is centered on the splines. You’ll have maybe 1/64” of spline one each side. Reinstall the removed rim and then final check everything is centered.

Usually you’ll want the axle flush with the rim hub. This gives a slight bit of pre-load side to side to allow some movement. If pressed too far the rim will rub the chassis, if too loose the axle gear will fall out of the worm gear possibly damaging the teeth.

And as a side note I described it in very simple terms and am in no way, shape, or form assuming your dumb or not mechanically inclined. Just wanted to clarify that, lol…

 

[raschildhouse]

To remove the axle, you need some sort of blocking bar, and a dump truck/vehicle rear weight.

Remove the tires and one of the rear rims. Usually you can just grab it and slightly twist it till it comes off. However, from my experience the fire trucks usually are much harder to remove.

If you have a set of pin punches, use one the size of the axle or smaller. Or another axle, or a nail or whatever you can hit to drive the axle off the rim. You’ll need to use a block to lift the chassis off the work surface to allow the other rim and axle to move down. A few solid taps and it should break free. I’d probably remove the rim that doesn’t drive the gear, so in case it gets oversized it won’t affect turning the side gear.

Once you get the rim off you’ll have a portion of the axle sticking out. Using the rear weight as a block, place the axle end on it and press down. This will make the gear bottom on the hole at the bottom of the chassis and the gear will move a bit.

Now slide the axle so the gear is against the hole on the bare axle side. Using a suitable blocking bar, you want to place it in the gap between the gear and the bottom hole, on the side with the rim still on. Holding the blocker tool, place the axle on the weight again and push it again. At this point it should move the gear enough you can grab the rim and pull the axle free.

In simpler terms, you want to remove the non-drive rim, using a pin punch and a beater. Or if you can just grab it and twist it off, maybe. Fire trucks are usually a PITA to get the rear rims off. Then you want to push the bare axle to the chassis, then block the gear with something to allow another push cycle to get it free.

To install, install the motor with its gear on, drop the axle gear through the hole. Then push the axle into its chassis hole. Do so until you engage the gear a bit. Slightly turn the axle to “feel” the spines and then press via the rim side to get through the gear. Again block the gear with a tool opposite your rim side, and finish pushing the rim until your gear is centered on the splines. You’ll have maybe 1/64” of spline one each side. Reinstall the removed rim and then final check everything is centered.

Usually you’ll want the axle flush with the rim hub. This gives a slight bit of pre-load side to side to allow some movement. If pressed too far the rim will rub the chassis, if too loose the axle gear will fall out of the worm gear possibly damaging the teeth.

And as a side note I described it in very simple terms and am in no way, shape, or form assuming your dumb or not mechanically inclined. Just wanted to clarify that, lol…

Mechanically inclined, formal and informal education - cars, FAA A&P, etc., HOWEVER, I prefer better instructions than assumptions to you are right on. Rainy day tomorrow so, if the gears print nice on my 3D printer, that is my task for tomorrow - just looked at the clock - later today. Appreciate the help and information. Thanks, Rex